Ever hear of a pig in a poke? Know where that comes from? At the county fairs people would offer piglets in a gunny sack. You could feel them squirming around in there - and when you got it home and opened it up you would find that they were kittens. Thus the saying - "Don't - "

I want everyone to have a radiation detector - but I have seldom seen so much scam as when it comes to what is available. Here I am going to talk about what you might buy, or that others have bought, at government surplus auctions and that they now make available over the Internet.

Those who have bought them, have my greatest sympathy - and condolences. There are diamonds among them - but they are mostly junk, and those who are selling them are usually just selling the junk. My sympathy is for the dealers because they have oftentimes been mislead. Most have called up someone in FEMA and they have been told that these are working meters. Either the person who told them that simply didn't understand the facts - or had a different agenda. Of course, the auction papers said "as is" "no recourse" and all that other legalistic jargon - but the dealers likely would not have bought them if they knew the junk they were getting. On the other hand, many of the dealers made money out of the junk by splitting up the large lots and selling on to smaller dealers, who have sold the junk on to end buyers. It is the latter who have my condolences.

One outfit that is doing it right is RadMeters4u.com. Their FAQ is also the most informative resource about all these meters and dosimeters, too, entitled: Civil Defense Radiation Detection Survey Meters, Geiger Counters & Dosimeters FAQ

The two initial major problems are storage and processing. Later might come servicing and order processing.

But let us deal with the first problems first. I don't know what your situation is - but it would require a large barn.

In the picture you can see the face of about 14 pallets - but there are actually over 600 pallets in this inventory. Imagine the space you need, and storage isn't cheap.

Secondly then would come the matter and cost of transportation. If you do not own a transport - the cheapest way would probably be either to rent one or contract with an individual. A shipping or cartage company would be expensive. The warehouse would probably have a forklift to load the vehicle (which by the way - would not need to be a closed van - and might be easier to unload - if it were not.)

Next comes the problem of your own storage facility. You need to have measured the cubic feet involved. Can the unloading vehicle get into your storage space - (this could be the front end loader on a farm tractor). Do you have room to sort out the pallets. Different material will be on different pallets and you want to be able to reach one type without having to move another.

So long as the storage space is rain proof - it does not need to be climate controlled. Most of these units are already not working - because of excessive exposure to humidity. But you do need a climate controlled area in which to process the material. Climate controlled simply for human working conditions. Where I live in Canada our problem was cold and doing it in the winter, but somewhere else it may be summer and the problem may be the heat.

Once a pallet is 'opened' the individual cartons can be manhandled, or rather easily moved about on a trolley or dolly. The cartons are often very dusty and dirty, so old work clothes are needed. Also one needs good exacto knives, shears for cutting bands, and perhaps gloves for handling bands, pallets and such. A good table at work level and space for work flow is essential.

Once a carton is opened for processing - a whole new set of challenges present themselves. The units come packed in some quantity per carton. Maybe six, ten, or a dozen. They probably need to be repacked into smaller quantities for distribution - although six would not be totally unreasonable. Let us assume that one is going to break them into one or two unit lots - then you need new packing cartons. These can be obtained from a used carton supplier- for 10-20 cents each. For 100,000 pieces (all the same size - which is not the case) this would mean 50,000 cartons (a bit of storage and several pickup truck loads - just to pick up the cartons). At even a dime per carton - you are talking $5,000.

You must carefully select the cartons. They MUST be all the same size for the same products. They must have a good fit - and being used - you may wish to 'reverse' them before assembling them, so that any previous labeling will be on the inside. This process needs to be tested and proven before committing to a carton. Since in fact there is a mix of product there needs to be a mix of different sizes of cartons. The proper equipment needs to be acquired for assembling the cartons. Tape guns and tape most likely. Tape can be purchased in bulk - dozens of rolls in a carton - but in the quantity needed will still cost several hundred dollars.

Continuing with the process - what is to be done with a ratemeter once in has been retrieved from the original carton. Are they going to be tested individually? I am not talking calibration here - THAT is another whole ball game.

Just to test each meter electrically - means-

a. opening the interior shipping package - (probably each one is packed in a foam box) but the carton may just have dividers - like an egg carton or pop case). Sometimes, some meters (probably not these) come in canvas carrying cases that have to be removed.

b. Then there is the opening of the meter itself - sometimes a matter of clips - sometimes a matter of removing screws.

c. One then inserts a battery and tests the electrical function.

d. If one then has a low radiation source - (no license required) one can then determine if the instrument functions radiologically. I am still not talking calibration.

The test is SO CRITICAL that I have put it in red. Once again there is the problem that there is no market. This is approximately what I obtained in our group buy. Four of these units would then be worth about $80. The problem in this case is that one still does not have here sufficient chargers and dosimeters to put together the desirable mix for a 14 piece 'package' as we did.

e. At this point one needs to separate out the functioning and non-functioning meters.
e1. the non functioning meters can go into a bin - getting someone to come and take away the bin is a whole matter in itself. You need to make prior arrangements with a recycler - which can go all the way from being profitable - if gold contacts were involved (not likely) to being expensive if local environmental restrictions apply to components such as capactiors and resistors. (I can tell you some horror stories about the latter).
e2. functioning meters then have the battery removed- are closed up again - are put back into their protective styrofoam (hopefully they have it) and are put into their retail carton and sealed.

f. The retail package then needs to be stored. The reason that I have suggested several units in a single retail package is that if one pulls the units in a package from random places in inventory and preferrably not from just a single carton - or even a single skid - they will have the same probability of functionality as did the sample (shown above in red) of the entire inventory. It is this probability of functionality that is the value - and the owner of several units can can then reliably take "a vote" among the readings of his instruments and rely confidently upon the majority opinion. It is this having several units that is key to the procedure.

g. the empty cartons also need to be broken back down - and if done with care can be recycled through the used carton source - for one or two cents each which helps defray the cost of disposal.

If we are talking about one meter in ten being good - then the wholesale cost and value of the good meter is $5 as mentioned above.

If one were to take and calibrate these meters the value of the good ones would jump to 50-80 dollars. But that is a whole different subject. I won't go into the details about calibration - because they are too lengthy to go into here.

The value of calibration is time dependent. That is to say the more recently they have been calibrated - the better. They should be recalibrated every couple of years. The ones in inventories such as this have often not been calibrated in ten years or longer. Those calibration certificates are now meaningless. The same problem, if one had the money to invest, would occur with putting calibrated units into stock. They might run out of calibration time before being sold, (although I personally feel they will be needed long before then.) . I think that what I have suggested is the best compromise.

Still, even here - the question is whether to store "AS IS" the raw inventory - (an expense in itself) or to process it ahead of time. My preference is in the latter.

If one can use slack processing labor - so that they don't really incur the fifty thousand dollar processing fee-- (when I was a boy we all went out and worked on clearing the field of rocks for 2 hours each Saturday before going to town (for a quarter movie as a reward). A half dozen people working each week this way - over generations cleared many an Ozark field) -- well then the task would eventually be accomplished - and the product would be ready - should there ever be a demand for it. Moreover, this would also eventually free up much of the storage space.

So - there are my thoughts - based upon actual experience.

The keys to this operation are storage space and manpower. If one had a large barn that was not being used - and it was on their property so that they could work on the project at convenience and did not have travel expense (that was my problem - the warehouse was remotely located - it took hours of travel to get there - and I couldn't work on it at my convenience.)

The alternative - is individual repair and calibration. That is a strategy that would have to be carefully evaluated. I had previously considered calibrating - and the following low level of repair:

a. tuning potentiometers - (10 minutes)

b. replacing a bad resistor - (15 minutes)

c. swapping components between units - (20 minutes)

I am just guessing at these times (based on other experience) but the final tested units if you can make a suitable arrangement for volume calibration - are going to cost YOU $60-$80 once you work in all the other details, steps, and procedures that I have outlined before. I don't know what you might feel that you would have to sell them for - but I don't think you will find a market.

Once again, in my alternative sampling method, based on my assumptions - 4 meters still in the boxes (if randomly selected - which is difficult to do) would give a person an almost 100% probability of one working - and would be worth $10 a piece or $40 for the package (not that one could find a market).

I have thought - "Wouldn't it be neat if we could get 600 people to each buy one pallet for $200." Unfortunately - I suspect the shipping charges would be much higher than that - and now I suspect the idea is useless - because we would be mostly shipping them junk. Also as a practicality, I found it almost impossible to get 400 people to buy good kits of 14 pieces for just $100, so I am sure I couldn't find 600 people with $200.

Ideally, the buyer should then do their own testing, but alternatively they could use my 'vote' method - and the latter is what my procedure is premised upon. Unfortunately, the products in the picture have such a low degree of probability of functionality, my sampling technique won't work.

The two choices may come down to:

a. creation of a product that is greater than any recoverable market price (wondering whether there is any market - anyhow).

b. marketing them in what I consider to be the immoral method that some other marketers are currently using.

While low level tests would show that the unit is functioning radiologically at low levels, unless one can show that there is a useful probabilistic correlation between such results and high range detection and then statistically project the results against the entire inventory - in order to use that factor to quantitatively (rather than qualitatively) select the units for packaging, I feel that such a test is useless.

The mere indication of the presence of low levels of radiation (which might actually be much higher) is not really that useful. One would, or should, (during a nuclear war) have an idea that SOME radiation is about - the essential question is - at WHAT level. (mr) is just one thousandth - of what one really needs to be concerned about - and could as easily lead to an erroneous tactical decision as be beneficial in making a correct one.

Indeed, I feel that low range (mr range) detection is counterproductive - to the desired final end of being a nuclear war defense tool.

Many (most - nearly all) persons in the radiation detection field are not really sympathetic to my cause. They are philosophically committed to peace time radiological standards (perhaps even industrial or nuclear electrical power generating plant accidents) but are not really concerned about the very high levels associated with a nuclear war. (If you don't believe this, just ask them how many of them have fallout shelters).

So much for my personal experience. For the inventory shown in the picture, we had sample testing done by a VERY qualified lab. I feel that the sample was sufficiently large and random to be significantly predictive. Right out of the box NONE of the units worked but with some minor tweaking and calibrating 25% were made functional. The rest were total scrap. These results are similar to other similar experience that I have had, and to the experiences of a number of highly qualified individuals with whom I am closely acquainted.

The following is a posting from a location on the Internet, which tells of still another person's experience:

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If you've ever wondered if your surplus Civil Defense meters actually worked, here's my experience based on qualified lab tests. I had a number of surplus CD meters purchased from various sources, some for as little as $29.00. By coincidence, I found an instrument test lab in the area that actually tested meters for local hospitals. I took the following meters, and here were the results: